I take more than a little umbrage

[Johan]

When I wrote this I hadn't yet read the OOC where everyone agreed to Jarmok's plan.    Dale is amazed at how stupid Jarmok is and I as a player was taken compleeeetely by surprise by his actions.  Dale also feels personally affronted by Jarmok and he doesn't know what he did to irritate him so much.

Personally I wasn't thrilled with Johan forcing everyone else's hand (remember I had not read the last few posts of the Lets Work Together OOC)

I take more than a little umbrage at this, BS.

I haven't forced anybody's hands. Even had you not read the other thread. Everyone is free to do as they and their character wills. Follow if you'd like. Don't if you don't.

I'm pretty confident that Sayer wouldn't. I'm pretty sure that Ragnor sees the wisdom in leaving him to guard over the councilors and Sayer.

I will cite these particular quotes from Dale:

Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006: "...We should all go together. (I'll conceded that there may be some contextual buttressing here)

Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006: "If we are all in and only if we are all in on this, I suggest we split our forces again."

There is inherent ambivalence in these statements.

I would also like to call attention to this apparent blindness:

Posted: Mon Feb 13: "Is not more hunt. Is rescue now." (Jarmok, obviously)

But then Dale shoots back (much later, granted):

Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2006: "You say I'm bloodthirsty? You're the one charging back into to battle!"

I call this blindness because I've already made it clear that I'm *NOT* going into battle, but you seem to ignore that. Additionally, it is Dale who has advocated that we collectively run into battle, not Jarmok, and you seem to ignore that as well. I'm not clear on whether this is superb role playing (kudos for that), or inobservance.

More from that same post: "Besides, who gave you the right to order us what to do?"

I apologize; I don't see where Jarmok pointedly issued any orders. I will say that he tried to make his point in his broken language as hard as he could, but he didn't "order" anyone to do anything. That's not his style. Again, if this is but superb role playing, then you've got it down awfully well. Well done.

You and Dale seem to want one thing, and one thing only: To talk and talk and talk and talk and talk and talk and talk and talk and talk and talk until the rest of us throw our collective hands up and do it your way.

This is my read of this very long and weary thread. And bear in mind, it's not going to happen. Dale is going to have to internalize that people are going to have differing opinions; he's going to have to learn how to respect those opinions, and he's going to have to take into account that he's been in Threshold for a few days, while Jarmok has lived there, as far as Dale knows for his whole life. Furthermore, Jarmok has been given a duty and a place of honor by the residing council. Jarmok actually has a job and a special emblem that speaks to his position in the town as its protector.

Jarmok has simply made his mind up and is moving forward with that (acknowledging that they've only got limited time, and that is slipping away by the word). He's not forcing anyone to follow, and neither am I. As for Dale being amazed at how stupid Jarmok is, my sense is that Dale would be amazed at how stupid Paladine is too. Try to not confuse stupidity with foolishness. They are very separate things.

It is clear to Jarmok (and to me) that words are not going to move this conversation forward. You will keep making your same (albeit vacillating) point repeatedly ad infinitum. That's ok. Just don't expect Jarmok to stand and listen to it. There's an impact to having him chaotically aligned, and this is it.

Again, follow if you will, don't if you won't. Conversation and differing opinions are more than welcome at all times. Friction is not. When a game comes to the point where friction becomes tension, we all need to have the wisdom to back away for a time. The fact that one player doesn't agree with another does not make either of those people stupid. Or even foolish.

In parting, when you do something like shoot an arrow into a door, try to not dictate the response of the other players. Take your action, but wait for the other players to tell you their own actions before continuing on. Dale's diatribe at the end lost a lot of steam because he was then talking to the air. Many of his demands would have been met and deflated, but as it was you charge on assuming that you retain the floor.

To wit:

"Who made you king?" Dale shouted at Jarmok's back.

Let's pretend that Jarmok did stop and turn.

"Not king." Jarmok objected angrily. He held up his bronzewood axe in exhibition. "But Julius make me Protek'tr because Threshold ask. You have bronzewood? Julius give you title? You even have house in Threshold? Not your home! Go home if not like!"

Dale snapped back: "You don't care what anyone else has to say?"

"Everyone spoke." Jarmok answered this next accusation.

Dale railed on, saying, "You're gonna take Kit underground when she can't even stand? What are you thinking?!!!!"

"Kit come if Kit want. No force."

"Who's going to rescue your sorry hide when you get overwhelmed down there?"

"If I die, then you leave. No need rescue me. At least councilors get Threshold."

"Stop being an ignorant jackass Jarmok!"

"If living prisoners, we get." Jarmok said, moving back across the courtyard to where Dale was. "If you in there, you want us leave without?!? Who's jackass now?!?!" Jarmok slammed his axe into Dale's cranium.

See how things can either inflate of deflate? Please try to take things one step at a time. Make up your mind as to what you want to do, and do that if you have to. But don't go belittling folks based upon whether they agree with you or not. Believe it or not, your ideas aren't always the best for everybody (no one's are). That's why corporate America invented the committee.